Tellygraph wires - not just for Ruining Your Photo

ninthnotch · Site Admin Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 2340

I mentioned in the post by AusInExile that you can use telegraph wires to identify roughly what line a photograph is taken.

While I have not the expertise on NSW telegraph wires, I'll use a Victorian example that's pretty easy to maybe give a hand to.

This is a picture of an E_E light engine somewheres. Most likely it was running to or from a large yard, one of either Warragul. Geelong, Seymour, Bendigo, Ballarat, Wodonga or Benalla. E classes running on main lines was very very rare, and most likely this took the photographer by surprise.

(I actually now know what E it is and what day roughly it is purely from another source. But I've only used that)

This picture was unmarked with dates, or locations. Bugger. It's an interesting picture and probably, despite it being blurry, the only known picture of an E on the main line.

We can determine several things already:

1) It's single track -- look at the fact that there appears to be no track infront of the E, and we can tell which direction it's going by the smoke trail. So not Bendigo and not Seymour. Leaves us with Geelong, Ballarat and Seymour-Benalla. The fact that Bendigo's rules out is important as we'll soon see.

2) No overhead wires. I'm probably maintaining that the fact it's in colour means it's post Gippsland wiring. Very very few people had colour slides before the poles went up east. Rules out Warragul.

The only clues so far we have is that it's a well-built line and it's single track.

The possible candidates are:

Geelong-Ballarat
Melbourne-Geelong
Melbourne-Ballarat
Wodonga-Seymour

So that leaves telegraph wires.

Have a look at the middle of the picture and a three-crossbar telegraph wire with six wires per crossbar is up there.

We know that Melbourne-Geelong had massive wires with two high-tension wires at the top (and I can't find a picture at the moment) so we can eliminate that.

The possible candidates are:
Geelong-Ballarat
Melbourne-Ballarat
Wodonga-Seymour

Now, we need to use some photoreferences.

This is X36 on the North-East line north of Seymour, between Avenel and Euroa.

Look at the back of X36's tender. Too many wires.

That leaves Ballarat as the destination.

But what line? Time to look at matching poles.

And this picture of X38, many fence-disdaining gunzels and B83 on a stock train on a main line.

X38 we know ran a well-known tour to Ballarat in the late 1950's and this picture is suspected to be of it. Not on;ly that, it's identified as being a tour tp Ballarat taken at Ingliston station. Look directly between the two locos and there's the same telegraph wire.

So we know that it in all likelihood is on the Melbourne-Ballarat line as...

...This picture of Warrenheip Bank shows two types of wires - and the bottom three fit.

------------------------

Looking at the landscape also rules out Geelong-Ballarat, no-one I asked could think where this could match (no ditches between track and roadway...)

I'm pretty sure it's between Ballan and Bungaree: I think close to Ballan, although someone else thinks it's more like Bungaree. Could also be Wallace or Gordon. Topography looks right for it.

(I know now that given the colour picture, only one E class move took place in the 1960's - E371 ran light engine from Melbourne to Ballarat North on 18th September 1963. Close examination of the plate shows a blurred '71')
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MJJA · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject:

Damn - I thought this was going to be a thread full of artistic photos featuring wires. There was a good one in Newsrail a couple of years back...
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TheLoadedDog · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject:

Fucken impressive detective work, but.

"So, I put it to you, that YOU were there on the night of the Fifteenth, and YOU had the motive...."
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drwaddles · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject:

Excellent post notch.

As a researcher myself I love it when you can pull all the pieces together like that Smile

Filtertron · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject:

As a further note to 'notch's reference to the two "high tention wires" which were located on the top crossarm of a multi crossarm telegraph pole, more often than not these were actually electrical wires and had the clear green insulators as opposed to the white ceramic ones used for the telegraph. It makes it easy for any linesman to tell the difference between one and the other and not get zapped - speaking of which; I know of a bloke* who climbed up the telegraph on the Geelong line to get a photo. He lost his balance, and fell onto the electrical wires. The electricity travelled to the point of least resistance and blew his leg off below the knee. He was lucky there were other people with him or he would have been a gonna. Everytime I see that photo of the two gunzels on the telegraph at Crystal Brook I think of how lucky they were, and how silly it was of them to climb up there - one little slip... Rodney Dangerfield

I'll get back on topic now a bit more. Quite recently around my area, all of the telegraph poles and wires were removed as obsolete. The line between Ballarat and Ararat has also been relieved of it's telegraph - in fact, I think the whole line to Ballarat from Melbourne has been cleared of telegraph. From Ararat onwards, the telegraph remains, which is kinda cool from a historic point of view.

*I'm not giving the bloke's name for privacy reasons - some of you will most likely be aware of who I am referring to, and I'll leave it at that.
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Bigged · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:35 am Post subject:

I personally knew the bloke who got zapped I wont name him but It happened on the Geelong line and said person climbed on a signal gantry ladder to gain a gunzell photo.
Said person was always doing stupid things to get a photo like climbing on top of locomotives and structures, Man I knew it was just a matter of time.
Stupidity always catches up with you...........Eventually!
Anyways the ladder on the structure broke and this bloke he grabs the nearest thing to stop him falling which was a conveniently placed wire.
Surprised

OHHHH MAGOO YOU DUN IT AGAIN! Rodney Dangerfield

around 6kv will really brighten a persons life for a milisecond or so, Anyways he got pretty fucked up and fell to the ground.
Now there was a freight returning from melbourne and the driver (Yes I know him as well) saw this smokin shape in the grass and sorta recognised that it was a cross between the Elephant man and a human, and gained ambulance assistance.

Now there is a moral to this story but I will leave it up to you fellow bastards to make one up!
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AusInExile · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:58 am Post subject:

Russ, I know of another bloke, might be the same one, who apparently made contact with the 400V high tension wire, killed him instantly. What revived him was hitting the ground. Might be (pretty damn sure it is) the reason he earned his nick-name too.

Bwana · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:47 am Post subject:

frozensquirrel · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject:

ninthnotch · Site Admin Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 2340

The two top wires on Melbourne-Geelong were IIRC for Telecom and were a higher voltage.
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Argus Tuft · Joined: 18 Jun 2007 Posts: 1285 Location: Jakarta

frozensquirrel · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject:

ninthnotch · Site Admin Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 2340

As a followup to this, I am about 99% certain now that the picture of the E was a Jack McLean one.
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